Collective Satisfaction
A snippet of a conversation between long-time collaborators Joni Barnard and Zee Hartmann, during the in-process residency presented by HAUT and Humus Collective, this past April in Copenhagen
reconstructed by Zee Hartmann*
There are languages we are still trying to find, thoughts we are still developing, experiences we still aim to process. Conversation and collective thinking are vulnerable acts at the basis of these discovery processes. They are a part of the work, invisibilized and vulnerable, yet core to performative world-making.
The conversation you are about to read is personal. We are addressing each other directly. We are sitting on the stage of a black box theatre, surrounded by large reams of rolled-out paper; pens and markers are strewn about.
This conversation is a reconstruction –almost verbatim and intentionally messy– showing our collaborative stream of consciousness. It takes place during a residency at Teatret Zeppelin in Copenhagen. It emerges from the intersection of the tasks we set for ourselves and the books and research materials that support our processes of discovery. It is contained by the Black Box, a gentle reminder of emerging imaginaries, yet to be materialised.
Zee Hartmann and Joni Barnard at HAUT. Foto by Louise Herrche Serup
Zee: I was thinking about shadow material again and how some things can be difficult to talk about…
Joni: Yes. Because we listened to that Chani Nicholas podcast on the recent eclipse season…
Zee: …and how you were mentioning whiteness earlier and how we very quickly moved away from that. So then it brings me back to this text from Emma Dabiri that says something like we are not responsible for our ancestors, but we are responsible for what we do do and we have to accept our privilege and take responsibility for white supremacy. And then, that abandoning guilt is against inaction and against avoidance. So like, guilt is inaction. Guilt is avoidance. And at the end of the text there's an Audre Lorde quote: “The end of guilt is the beginning of knowledge”.
Joni (pointing to a spot on the large sheet of paper that we taped onto the stage floor): Okay hold on, I also wrote this down, and I think it is also Audre Lorde: “Guilt and defensiveness are bricks in a wall against which we all flounder. They serve none of our futures”.
Zee: Yeah. Ja, exactly. And then she said: “Guilt is a device to protect ignorance”. So then Dabiri goes on to say action motivated primarily by guilt is self-indulgent and it centralizes victimhood.
Joni: Yes.
Zee: And then, if I am in a space, as a white person, where there are marginalized communities present, then I have to spend at least half the time listening as I do responding. And then she says that dwelling in a space of guilt and shame prioritizes making yourself feel better. And that's white-centering.
And then I also decided to look into Queering Anarchism, which just seems very unfriendly to delve into for some reason. It doesn’t have good energy.
Joni (laughing): Yes, yes. Yes.
Zee: So anyways, I read part of this article about how polyamory and queer politics intersect, essentially. And I just quickly wrote down that free love and mutual aid come together. And then I wrote down polyamory is not possession.
Then I grabbed Against White Feminism. So this is really amazing, because Rafia Zakaria really goes in. So there's this chapter on sexual liberation and how it's being incorrectly…wait…
[pause]
Joni: Interpreted?
Zee: Conflated! With feminism. So feminism and sexual liberation are completely intertwined, and you can't have one without the other, and, and she was talking about how she's Muslim and she’s from Pakistan and how the idea of sexual liberation among people from communities that are deemed “repressed” by white cultures…how sexual liberation of those individuals become like completely performative in order to be accepted by white feminists. So she says: “How did sexual liberation become the centerpiece for feminist liberation? And: “The good fortune of the Western feminist is a sexual liberation”. You know, like the good fortune of the Western feminists! Like oh! I just so happen to not live in a ‘sexually repressed’ society! But…it's also like a capitalistic tool to placate white feminists: You can do whatever you want, so buy all these products.
Joni: Exactly. Make yourself sexier!
Zee (handing Joni the book): I think you should read the chapter for yourself and see what you think about it. She goes on to say sexual liberation does not necessarily equal empowerment. And she mentions the idea of compulsory sexuality, and then ultimately how asexuality is the only tenet of the whole spectrum that actively works against capitalism.
Joni: Wait wait wait, start again.
Zee: Asexuality works against capitalism. Because it completely denies that sexuality is a product in any way, shape or form. When you start looking at the world through an asexual lens, you start seeing how performative, and layered, and capitalist all of these ideas of sexuality become. For example sexual identity, pride flags, sex, like how you dress sexy, clothing... it's all tools. I mean, she's going in, right? But it's really interesting. Because I'm not necessarily against sexual liberation. Of course not. I'm not against sexual liberation. But I think it's good to keep in mind that…
Joni: …it’s also very much linked and intertwined with capitalism. And value.
Zee: And value! And queerness! You know, there's no critique on my end. It's just like, Oh!
Joni: This is intertwined.
Zee: But also it’s very positive and very fruitful and you can’t just make the blanket statement that sexual liberation is toxic feminism, because that's not true.
And then I was looking through Stine’s little book on methods of nonviolent action, wherein she says that peaceful attitude does not necessarily have a peaceful response, which is a method of nonviolent action. Obviously, it's harm reduction. And then just one last thing from Kae Tempest where they say that when we are fixated on what we can get from an exchange, or how we can benefit instead of considering what we can offer, we are being exploitative.
Joni (repeating): When we are fixated on what we can get from an exchange, or how we can benefit instead of considering what we can OFFER! we are being exploitative. I love this.
Zee: And this is colonialism.
Joni: I'm really amazed at how everything is linking together. It makes sense, though, because we chose these books as part of our research.
[pause]
So I think this is also Kae [Tempest]: “The difference between an artist and someone who dreams of becoming an artist is finished work”.
Zee: That’s fucking interesting.
Joni: So to just actually finish something, to try it, to persist. Sometimes I feel like I have to do so much in order to access my own intelligence. You know, like, I have to rationalize things. I have to warm up. I must do yoga, must have a shower, must eat properly, in order to be ready to do something. And then I thought NO. You just show up. You just arrive and go into something. When I think about finishing work it’s that there doesn't have to be so much preamble in order to just get into something. Does that makes sense?
Zee: Yes.
Joni: There’s this quote, I forget where this is from right now: “The words never flowed easily which is why I drank to de-constipate myself”.
I had another thought, this time about the idea of “White Flight”. It made me think a lot about the privilege to leave. “I feel uncomfortable. I'm leaving.” The privilege is to choose when and where to feel comfortable.
Okay, listen, I'm just gonna read you this poem-like structure I wrote, quoting from a bunch of different texts in these books we brought with us:
“The difference between an artist and someone who dreams of becoming an artist
is finished work.
The words never flowed easily, which is why I drank to de-constipate myself
–liquor as emotional laxative.
White flight. White racial innocence.
Guilt and defensiveness are bricks in a wall against which we all flounder.
They serve none of our futures.
The passionate journey.
How to disappear. How to join a group.
We want neither clean hands nor beautiful souls, neither virtue nor terror.
We want superior forms of corruption to be undone against her will and with her consent. The dildo is the truth of heterosexuality as parody.
I'm sorry for doubting myself.
Clearly we needed something to excite them, to entice them out to glide over the glass.
Queerness is a manifestation and statement of freedom and enlightenment.
Difference must be not merely tolerated but seen as a fund of necessary polarities between which our
creativity can spark like a dialectic.
Only then does the necessity for interdependency become unthreatening.
Only within that interdependency of different strengths, acknowledged and equal, can the power to seek new ways of being in the world generate
as well as the courage and sustenance to act where there are no charters.”
The last thing I wanted to write down was: Within the interdependence of mutual non-dominant differences, which I thought of like hierarchies, lies that security which enables us to descend into the chaos of knowledge and return with true visions of our future, along with the concomitant power to affect those changes which can bring the future into being. Difference is that raw and powerful connection from which our personal power is forged.
Zee: Cool. Very cool.
Joni: I want to read to you from the Countersexual Manifesto. Have you read this?
Zee: No…
Joni: Aaah I love it… Page 70.
“The dildo is the truth of heterosexuality as parody. The logic of the dildo proves that the very terms of the heterosexual male/female, active/passive system are nothing but elements among so many others within an arbitrary signification system. The dildo is the truth of the genitals as a signifying mechanism against which the penis looks like the false impostor of a dominant ideology. The dildo says the penis is a fake phallus. The dildo shows that the signifier generated by sexual difference has gotten caught in its own trap. It will be betrayed by the very logic that established it, and all under the pretext of imitation of compensation for an impairment of a mere prosthetic supplement.”
Think of your body as a dildo. Your body is a dildo.
Zee: I think you've mentioned this to me before.
Joni: Yes. Your body is a dildo. And also this idea that everybody is united through the asshole.
[LONG, CONTEMPLATIVE PAUSE]
Zee: Do you want to do bodywork now or do you want to go outside?
Joni: I want to do bodywork. But it can be quick. It doesn’t have to be as long as yesterday’s.
Zee: Can we…I’m trying to think about what would be good for me right now. Do you know what will be good for you?
Joni: Something not on the floor.
Zee: Ahah! Okay! Do you want to do a little slappy-slap**?
Joni: Maybe a little slappy-slap will be nice. Yeah, I just think the floor was a bit like (whooshing noise). Too like zzzzzzzzztttt for me. Ja, I could do a slappy-slap.
Zee: Cool. Let's do that.
Joni: Would it be good for you?
Zee: That sounds good to me. Let me just take my glasses off.
**Slappy-slap: done with a partner, alternating doer and receiver. Person One stands comfortably, feet hip-distance apart (outside edges of the feet at the limit of their perception of their iliac crest), knees relaxed, arms resting by their sides, eyes closed. Person Two, using both hands, starts by “slapping” (with various degrees of force and pressure) Person One’s upper back, between the scapulae. Moving at their own speed and desire they continue across the rest of Person One’s body, not forgetting buttocks, tops of feet, palms, under arms, etc. Optional: When Person One gets to the head, they can “claw” their hands and gently tap on the skull, forehead and throat. A little slappy-slap.
*
Zee Hartmann (they/she) is from Cape Town, South Africa. They hold a BA in Dance & Theatre, an AA in Fashion Design, an MFA in Dance and an MA in Dramaturgy. They are a multi-disciplinary artist that maintains a critical & creative writing practice, works professionally as a photographer and owns and operates their own fashion label. They currently live in Berlin, working on a freelance basis with both locally- and internationally-situated performance artists who specifically focus on queer & feminist subject matter.
Joni Barnard (they/them) is excited by queer and trickster approaches to life and work, practices of consent and radical liberation. Originally from Johannesburg, South Africa, Joni is currently living and working in Berlin. Joni is an artist, live performer, rapper, choreographer, facilitator and cultivator of embodied activism. They create subversive work to encourage people to reflect on identity politics and sociopolitical issues, such as gender diversity, racial and power dynamics and radical inclusivity.
